How many times have the Royals kept a starter in the minors to begin the season to game his service time clock?
Hochevar. Any others? And they called him up when they did last year and kept him in the majors for the remainder of the year, just to keep him in the minors again to start the next season before calling him up again? Doesn’t that seem kind of ridiculous?
The Royals would have to keep him in the minors for most of the year to get another year (and then you are just switching out the timing of the six years, not gaining anything).
Cot’s has Duffy at 134 days of service time from last year, so to take him out of potential Super 2 territory (remember the cutoff is lowered under the new CBA), they would have to leave him in the minors for something like a month.
Yeah, the only thing that sounds halfway reasonable would be keeping him in the minors to avoid Super 2. But I really don’t think the Royals have been focusing on that much. I think they are in “promote when ready, as long as there is an opportunity for regular playing time” mode. Service time be damned (except for maybe making sure they get more than 6 seasons of team control).
if the Royals did not care about Super 2 status with Duffy last year
I am not sure the Royals would care this year based on his major league performance last year, or at least as a sole consideration.
I have not looked at the early schedule, but I could see them making him the 5th starter and keeping him in the minors until the 5th starter is actually needed, which would free up a roster spot in the interim, help limit his innings, and potentially reduce Super 2 probability.
The Star (I think Dutton) had a point on Paulino that I hadn't considered
If Paulino doesn’t win a rotation spot, he’ll definitely wind up in the MLB pen. It seems pretty unlikely that he won’t win a rotation spot, but they can’t put him in the minors and they won’t put him on waivers. So he’s either in the rotation and pushing some combination of Duffy, Monty, Mendoza, etc to the minors, or he’s in the bullpen and he’s pushing some combination of Wood, Herrera, Crow, Collins etc to the minors.
Adjust your roster scenario expectations accordingly.
I can't see any possible justification for Paulino not being a mortal lock for this rotation.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time I hear talk coming from the organization about Paulino having to battle for a spot in this disaster of a rotation.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time I hear talk coming from the organization about Paulino having to battle for a spot in this disaster of a rotation.
Disasters are made, not born. It is the competence of this front office which has led to the quality of the Royals rotation. They may not be done making bad decisions.
He’s probably the best starter, but he doesn’t have much of a track record. If he really sucked in ST, it wouldn’t be totally unreasonable to put him in the pen until he shows signs of life.
That said, I think there’s about a 95% chance he’ll make the rotation, and that’s as it should be.
I have to believe that Felipe may have some attitude/motivational issues
which may have helped speed his DFA from Colorado last year. What’s most disconcerting about all of this, though, is that apparently Francoeur has not been able to work his clubhouse magic on Felipe by getting him to understand how to properly approach the game and, well, life. So he resorted to asking Dayton to spread these kind of quotes through the media in an effort to motive Felipe. This begs the question: Has Frenchy lost his leadership edge?
This is how upsetting Francoeur’s struggles with leading and clubhouse chemistrying Felipe are…I’m making typos that are completely out of character for me.
LHP Sean West, FLA
LHP Ross Detwiler, WAS
OF Nolan Reimold, BAL
RHP Michael Bowden, BOS
RHP Collin Balester, DET
C AJ Ellis, LAD
LHP Mike Zagurski, ARI
I don't know that the extra man in the pen is that necessary.
So many of the relievers have options, and they are so fungible for the Royals at this point, that a smaller pen with a slightly more frequent call to Omaha should be the course of action. Of course, that’s not how the Royals will look at things, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
There is a rule that a player has to stay in the minors for 10 days before being recalled (except in case of replacing someone who goes on the DL). It is not impossible to juggle players back and forth on the Omaha shuttle — and the best scenario probably involves a team like the Royals with multiple basically interchangeable relievers taking up the last spots in the pen — but it would create headaches for Jin Wong or whoever is in charge of keeping track of that stuff.
Minor league teams know the deal. They exist to support the major league team. That is their primary purpose. Everything else is a distant second. Doing their job well is developing players for the major league team.
But I’m not saying Omaha would be happy about it. I’m saying their happiness is entirely irrelevant.
There is an incentive for MLB teams to placate minor league affiliates a bit. The Royals have a vested interest in promoting their brand in Omaha. If the Stormchasers feel they’re getting dicked around and decide to affiliate themselves with the Rangers, that hurts the Royals a bit, and the Royals are stuck with some far-flung affiliate in Edmonton.
But doesn’t every MLB team promote and demote players as they wish? Isn’t that precisely what every minor league affiliate expects? Do you think ANY minor league team thinks “why do they keep taking our best players?” or “why don’t they make certain I have a full bullpen of rested players?”
More to the point of your comment, do you think any minor league team is thinking that if they change affiliation to another MLB team, they will be treated less like a taxi squad for the major league team? Minor league teams know what they are and what they’re for. They haven’t been meaningfully independent enterprises for several decades.
when have teams constantly shuttled tired relievers down to AAA
with the intention of having them not pitch in AAA? how does that effect how the AAA team deals with the other players on their team? Is monty staying in the game longer than necessary? are legitimate prospects being overused?
Teams shuttle pitchers back and forth as needed. Sometimes that can happen frequently. And as far as how that might affect the usage of other players, the MLB team controls the minor league managers. They aren’t going to let him overuse Monty or any other prospect. There’s always filler that can eat innings.
These minor league teams do get disrupted a little bit,
but they actually look at it as an opportunity to sell out the ballpark. I remember Springfield people going nuts when Josh Kinney made some rehab appearances. It was standing room only when Carpenter made a start. They love when guys from the big league squad get sent down for any reason other than sucking.
I think an 8-man bullpen is silly at best. They really dont need that many relievers. They might only need one in a rare isolated case or two. I would much rather have a 4-man bench including maier and dyson.
Out of options does not necessarily mean the player is gone
If the player is out of options and cut from the 25 man roster, the team will designate him for assignment (outright release is very rare). If he is not traded and clear waivers, the team can keep him and outright him to the minors without his consent if (1) he has less than 5 years (I think) service time and (2) has not been outrighted to the minors previously.
None of the players have five years of service time, but Mendoza and Pena have previously been DFA’d, cleared waivers, and assigned to the minors, so they would have the option of refusing the minor league assignment and becoming free agents.
The rest would remain with the Royals if they cleared waivers. In reality, though, Hochevar and Paulino are virtually guaranteed spots on the 25 man roster, Mijares (LOOGY) would likely be claimed, and Maier (perfectly adequate 4th OF) might get claimed, leaving O’Sullivan as the one likely guy who would clear waivers.
If SOS is out of options, then I would think he would get a very long look for the 13th pitcher if we end up keeping that many. Basically have him come in and be the long reliever if one of our pitchers gets hammered (which probably will happen more than we all would like).
The Royals have already given O'Sullivan a pretty long look and know what they have
SOS is pretty much the epitome of a replacement level starter. Unless he suddenly added 5 MPH to his fastball, everyone knows how his skill set plays in the majors.
You realize his role would be as a long reliever/mop up guy. His job would be to keep us from having to use our whole bullpen in games we are not in. If we are in the game he wont come in. Guys like Wood and Herrera are not long relievers. I also dont think there is a point in wasting service time on a high level pitcher that wont be used in any meaningful situations. We used Adcock in a similar role last year and would much rather have SOS up than one of our players with potential.
Also by doing this one of three things will happen…
1. He sucks and we send him through waivers.
2. He is adequate and we use him for mop up duty.
3. He is better than expected and produces some value for us or in a trade…
it probably will be option 1 or 2, but you never know.
Wood is a former starter who is not terrible against lefties and capable of throwing more than one inning at a time. Adcock, Mazzaro, and Teaford all project as better pitchers than O’Sullivan. The team should use any of them before SOS.
I don't know if Mijares would be claimed because he is not making the minimum.
I think he is a near lock for the bullpen as the LOOGY though.
Pena will make the team because he is a switch hitter and Pina has options.
Hochever is a lock.
Paulino should be a lock for the rotation.
Mitch should be released, but he will make the team so that he can write letters to home.
Mendoza will make the team as the 5th starter or the long reliever, which will either put Teaford or Duffy in AAA.
Sean will be put through waivers I think, although If Mendoza makes the team as the 5th starter, he could push Teaford to AAA and be the long reliever.
Locks for the pen
Soria
Broxton
Holland
Advantage to making the team in the pen
Jose Mijares (LOOGY job should be his)
Tim Collins (has to beat Verdugo)
Teaford (has to beat either Mendoza or SOS for long reliever)
Crow (unless he is starting in AAA)
If there are seven relievers and Crow is in AAA or eight relievers and Crow is in the pen, one of Wood or Coleman should make the team.
(They could both make the team if there is eight relievers and Crow is in AAA, or could both not make the team if Crow is in the pen and there are seven relievers)
Other Royals on the 40 man who may or may not make the team
If there are seven relievers, Getz or Dyson may make th team.
Duffy has to beat out Crow, Mendoza, Teaford, Mazzaro, and SOS (I think he is the sixth starter and would need an injury to make the team)
Long shots
Kelvim Herrera (good but looks blocked)
Jeremy Jeffress (raw and the Royals have lots of relievers)
Clint Robinson (hey the Royals could figure out they need a lefty pinch hitter)
Derrick Robinson (why is he still on the 40 man?)
David Lough (would have to pass Mitch)
Ryan Verdugo (would have to pass Timmy)
Noel Arguelles (near zero chance)
Nathan Adcock (near zero chance)
Vin Mazzaro (near zero chance)
Better odds then Duffy faces in making the team, as he just has to beat out two of Duffy, SOS, and Teaford, and to make the roster. Also remember that an injury to one of 7 players, (maybe a 20% chance?), would up his chances to a near lock to be on the roster as well.
And there’s a possibility that a good showing from Crow in spring training could put him in the top 6 of that list, but I find it unlikely. Long story short, I think it would take injuries or very poor ST performances from at least 4 of the top 8 SP’s.
And you think the Royals are desperate to keep Mendoza and SOS? Also, do you think someone is likely to claim them if waived? I think Moore wants to win games, and I think he’s going to choose better pitchers over worse pitchers (who are marginal major leaguers at best) that are out of options.
I really have no idea where the idea came from that Dayton Moore really likes Luis Mendoza. I mean, maybe he does, but where do people get this opinion from? Has he been saying things about Mendoza that are beyond the standard, generally positive comments he makes about all miscellaneous players in the organization? He may well have said things that I’ve missed. He certainly doesn’t fit the toolsy profile that Moore tends to prefer. I see no reason to believe that Moore values Mendoza much, and especially no reason to believe that he’d demote a better player so that we don’t lose this particular talent.
That being said, with Moore, any mistake is possible. I just don’t think it is likely.
Also, Anthony Lerew had a full season as a starter for Omaha in 2010 with a 2.25 ERA. Why didn’t he get a long look, or even make the 25-man roster in 2011?
Why do I remember Anthony Larew being in KC for a long time in 2010? I think I remember them being all in love with him, starting him with a small sample size of success, then him imploding his way back to Omaha. Am I way off?
It just seems like in all the talk about the Royals, media people seem to indicate Mendoza is getting a serious look. There is no reason for the media to fabricate this – typically, they would not even know who Mendoza is, or would only remember him as the guy who shit the bed in the big leagues. But there is smoke, I suspect there is fire. Mendoza will be either one of the very last cuts, or will make the team IMO, and I’m pretty confident he’s on the team. Not that I advocate such tomfoolery.
…and therefore out-of-the-loop when it comes to KC media. But I recall Dayton saying things about Mendoza toward the end of last season that really had me worried.
Really? I think Coleman is a mortal lock to make the team, with Teaford extremely unlikely to make the team. You appear to assume that a pitcher with a lot of recent SP experience has to be the long reliever. That certainly isn’t necessary. Wood and Holland both spent a good deal of time in long relief last year. I think Wood can and should handle that role ably. I would think the bullpen would look something like this:
Soria
Broxton
Holland
Coleman
Mijares
Wood
Collins
I think Herrera and Jeffress have a shot. I think guys like SOS, Mazzaro, Teaford, Mendoza and Adcock are merely SP/LR depth who should be in the minors unless circumstances necessitate their promotion.
It is not always quality, the Royals like balance in the pen, and Teaford happens to be a lefty.
What should happen and what the Royals will do are usually two different things. There may only be five slots for righties, and Crow, Holland, Broxton and Soria take up 4. That does not leave a lot of space.
First, I screwed up in leaving Crow off the above list. I think he’ll be in the major league bullpen. And I think it is very likely that there will be a 7-man bullpen. So who is the odd man out? Probably Collins or Wood.
I think the Royals will probably have two lefties in the pen, if possible. I think Mijares is a lock unless something goes really wrong in ST. Collins would be the second choice for lefty reliever. I think Teaford is a distant third, and he has options remaining so they can safely stash him in the minors. I think there’s next to no chance they go with three lefties in the pen.
kinda tap danced around ‘will crow be in the mlb bullpen or in aaa starting if he doesnt make the rotation?’….moore said something along the lines of ‘it is absolutely possible that crow starts in omaha’….personally, i think its likely, given that we have bullpen options who are likely to be about as good as crow such as herrerra
Likely that he'll be in Omaha trying to make it as a starter?
I have a hard time seeing that as a likely outcome. After the last season, I just think he’ll be in Kansas City either in the pen or in the starting rotation early. Hopefully I’m wrong here though.
Moore seems to recognize that they need to take a shot at developing any possible starting pitching prospect. It also allows them to game his service time.
Moore seems to recognize that they need to take a shot at developing any possible starting pitching prospect.
Really? Do you think that putting Crow in the KC bullpen last year was about developing him as a starter? I wouldn’t say that he was or is committed at all to developing Crow as a starter. I don’t think he’s completely against it, but neither his actions nor his words show much enthusiasm for the concept of Crow as a starter.
I like Herrera a lot, and I think Collins could bounce back to being at least decent. And I think there’s good depth, especially from some prospects coming up.
I may be out of options pretty soon too
RoyalsRetro - February 21, 2012
I've Cleared Waivers
Dozens of times.
philofthenorth - February 21, 2012
I'm on a minor league assignment in Omaha
buddyball - February 22, 2012
I was at extended spring training in Baseball City until last week
Nobody told me they moved to Surprise.
thelaundry - February 22, 2012
I've been out of options since 1995
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
I Have Plenty
Of options, just no good ones.
philofthenorth - February 22, 2012
I've been DFA'd to Cardinal Country.
Wish I could just retire. No way I’d give the money back though.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 23, 2012
So it's going to be a pretty good battle between Mendoza, SOS, and Paulino for the #4/5 spots??
royal_in_cincinnati - February 21, 2012
Mendoza and SOS are in that “battle” but Duffy isn’t?
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
It just ain't spring without a Royal starter getting his clock rigged.
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
How many times have the Royals kept a starter in the minors to begin the season to game his service time clock?
Hochevar. Any others? And they called him up when they did last year and kept him in the majors for the remainder of the year, just to keep him in the minors again to start the next season before calling him up again? Doesn’t that seem kind of ridiculous?
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
The team already has Duffy for six more years
The Royals would have to keep him in the minors for most of the year to get another year (and then you are just switching out the timing of the six years, not gaining anything).
Cot’s has Duffy at 134 days of service time from last year, so to take him out of potential Super 2 territory (remember the cutoff is lowered under the new CBA), they would have to leave him in the minors for something like a month.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
Yeah, the only thing that sounds halfway reasonable would be keeping him in the minors to avoid Super 2. But I really don’t think the Royals have been focusing on that much. I think they are in “promote when ready, as long as there is an opportunity for regular playing time” mode. Service time be damned (except for maybe making sure they get more than 6 seasons of team control).
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
if the Royals did not care about Super 2 status with Duffy last year
I am not sure the Royals would care this year based on his major league performance last year, or at least as a sole consideration.
I have not looked at the early schedule, but I could see them making him the 5th starter and keeping him in the minors until the 5th starter is actually needed, which would free up a roster spot in the interim, help limit his innings, and potentially reduce Super 2 probability.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
we have 6 games in the first 6 days, so we'll need our 5th starter immediately
Loose Seal - February 21, 2012
there you go
If the rest of April has some off days, I guess they could keep SOS just to make that start and maybe one more before DFAing him.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
Banny.
Davies too, I think. I was just kidding, though. Use your powers on someone else.
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Do you really think they were trying to game Davies service time clock?
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
You're conceding Banny?
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Perhaps. It’s at least possible. But Davies, no.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
You know what this means:
I WIN!Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Where Hiram And
Banny are concerned, there are no winners.
philofthenorth - February 21, 2012
SOS isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Mendoza might make it. Paulino is in because of that. Pena, Mitch, Mijeras, LUKE are in.
306008 - February 21, 2012
I beg to differ.
That is exactly what SOS is.
kcemigre - February 21, 2012
That's what I was saying.
It’s not a bad thing he’s out of options.
306008 - February 22, 2012
Yeah..
…I forgot the sarc font.
kcemigre - February 22, 2012
If Mendoza is in the big leagues on May 23,
I will purchase and wear his jersey to whichever game he pitches in Yankees stadium.
Loose Seal - February 21, 2012
And I will demand pictures (and maybe even video) of said event
Sweep_the_Leg - February 21, 2012
I think I'll just wear my Eduardo Villacis jersey and tape Mendoza's name over it
thelaundry - February 21, 2012
That's what I do with
Duffy and ZacKKKKKKKKKKK
306008 - February 22, 2012
Mendoza is on this team for sure
he either makes it as a starter or long relief, but no way he gets cut. (unless he really really stinks up Arizona)
johnny4 - February 21, 2012
what makes you think the front office likes him at all?
they realize he’s bad
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
They do say stuff in the press that makes it hard to get comfortable...
kcemigre - February 21, 2012
they do dumb stuff....
but its almost entirely based on being nearly blind to anything besides tools…mendoza has no tools/stuff…kyle davies, he is not.
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
No idea where someone could get this idea
Certainly that kind of stupid mistake by the Royals FO is possible, but I wouldn’t say it is likely, much less certain.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Tend to agree
I bet he makes it as a long reliever, and they try to pass him through waivers in mid-April.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
Dayton specifically mentioned that they didn't want another Humber situation
And IIRC he was talking about Mendoza. I wouldn’t equate the two, but he did. If he really meant it, I have no idea.
thelaundry - February 22, 2012
The Star (I think Dutton) had a point on Paulino that I hadn't considered
If Paulino doesn’t win a rotation spot, he’ll definitely wind up in the MLB pen. It seems pretty unlikely that he won’t win a rotation spot, but they can’t put him in the minors and they won’t put him on waivers. So he’s either in the rotation and pushing some combination of Duffy, Monty, Mendoza, etc to the minors, or he’s in the bullpen and he’s pushing some combination of Wood, Herrera, Crow, Collins etc to the minors.
Adjust your roster scenario expectations accordingly.
kcdc1 - February 21, 2012
I can't see any possible justification for Paulino not being a mortal lock for this rotation.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time I hear talk coming from the organization about Paulino having to battle for a spot in this disaster of a rotation.
EspeciallyK - February 21, 2012
unless he goes Zambrano on us, he should be the #3 or #5 starter.
Luke
Johnny
Felipe
Bruce
Duffy/Mendoza/Crow/Monty
DickHowser4ever - February 21, 2012
and by "#3 or #5", i mean #3 or #4
DickHowser4ever - February 21, 2012
I always round to the nearest 5 too.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 21, 2012
So do the Royals. Heh.
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Disasters are made, not born. It is the competence of this front office which has led to the quality of the Royals rotation. They may not be done making bad decisions.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
Yes and no
He’s probably the best starter, but he doesn’t have much of a track record. If he really sucked in ST, it wouldn’t be totally unreasonable to put him in the pen until he shows signs of life.
That said, I think there’s about a 95% chance he’ll make the rotation, and that’s as it should be.
kcdc1 - February 21, 2012
FWIW
Paulino is generating “buzz” in camp for his side sessions, per Joel Goldberg.
RoyalsRetro - February 21, 2012
Dutton said something
about him looking really good in his bullpen sessions too.
Dr. van Strijcker - February 21, 2012
ive heard that about about a million pitchers already....
and its like day 2 of spring training
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
This kind of thing is another reason I find it odd that Paulino is getting the "on the bubble treatment" from the Royals
They love tools and stuff. And that’s his strong suit. He’s the kind of guy who looks really impressive in workouts and side sessions.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012
I don't know this, but I am willing to bet that
he is in the best shape of his life™buddyball - February 21, 2012
I have to believe that Felipe may have some attitude/motivational issues
which may have helped speed his DFA from Colorado last year. What’s most disconcerting about all of this, though, is that apparently Francoeur has not been able to work his clubhouse magic on Felipe by getting him to understand how to properly approach the game and, well, life. So he resorted to asking Dayton to spread these kind of quotes through the media in an effort to motive Felipe. This begs the question: Has Frenchy lost his leadership edge?
Sweep_the_Leg - February 21, 2012
"motivATe Felipe"
This is how upsetting Francoeur’s struggles with leading and clubhouse chemistrying Felipe are…I’m making typos that are completely out of character for me.
Sweep_the_Leg - February 21, 2012
chemistrying?
buddyball - February 22, 2012
Neither I, nor Frenchy, have time to educate non-baseball people on such things
Sweep_the_Leg - February 22, 2012
Frenchy was busy this offseason.
Hunting the mighty bigfoot with Jonathan Broxtonmitchfreakingmaier! - February 21, 2012
I thought Jonathan Broxton was bigfoot
buddyball - February 22, 2012
FWIW,
There’s a lot of talk about Paulino looking really impressive in bullpen workouts. I guess they weren’t watching him pitch last year.
hawkinscm87 - February 22, 2012
Guys that might be worth looking at
That might not make their roster:
LHP Sean West, FLA
LHP Ross Detwiler, WAS
OF Nolan Reimold, BAL
RHP Michael Bowden, BOS
RHP Collin Balester, DET
C AJ Ellis, LAD
LHP Mike Zagurski, ARI
RoyalsRetro - February 21, 2012
Would AJ Ellis not make the team?
We liked him at one point, no?
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Ellis came up in rumors about Pods or Callaspo if I remember correctly
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
Callaspo, I think.
Leading Rany to write an article about how the Royals would NEVER be so stupid as to trade Callaspo for essentially nothing. Then, boom. SOS.
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
Take that back
Will Smith is like the Royals 10th best prospect according to royalsprospectsaretehawesome.comGopherballs - February 21, 2012
I still think Nolan Reimold could do something.
Not that there’s room on the roster (barring injury), but still.
Old Man Duggan - February 21, 2012
I might dump Mitch for him
Although I know Reimold’s defense is pretty suspect. But isn’t that a big part of what Dyson is for?
Sweep_the_Leg - February 21, 2012
If we could afford 5 OFs, I'd be all for it.
Can we?
Dadunca - February 21, 2012
yeah...and we should so we can keep dyson
but they’ll likely go with the extra man in the pen…which really, isnt the worst idea in the world
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
I don't know that the extra man in the pen is that necessary.
So many of the relievers have options, and they are so fungible for the Royals at this point, that a smaller pen with a slightly more frequent call to Omaha should be the course of action. Of course, that’s not how the Royals will look at things, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Old Man Duggan - February 21, 2012
is there something to be said about not shipping guys in and out every week or two?
continuity?
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
the 10-day rule makes it difficult to manage
There is a rule that a player has to stay in the minors for 10 days before being recalled (except in case of replacing someone who goes on the DL). It is not impossible to juggle players back and forth on the Omaha shuttle — and the best scenario probably involves a team like the Royals with multiple basically interchangeable relievers taking up the last spots in the pen — but it would create headaches for Jin Wong or whoever is in charge of keeping track of that stuff.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
and im sure omaha wouldnt be a fan of constantly having 2 guys in their pen who are down there simply to rest up
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
Is how Omaha feels about anything relevant. That team exists to serve the Royals.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012 via mobile
uhh....you dont care if your employer constantly treats you like shit?
doesnt give you the necessary tools to do your job well?
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
Minor league teams know the deal. They exist to support the major league team. That is their primary purpose. Everything else is a distant second. Doing their job well is developing players for the major league team.
But I’m not saying Omaha would be happy about it. I’m saying their happiness is entirely irrelevant.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
You don't have always send them to Omaha you know.
You could send one to NW Arkansas and so forth.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
I wouldn't say entirely irrelevant
There is an incentive for MLB teams to placate minor league affiliates a bit. The Royals have a vested interest in promoting their brand in Omaha. If the Stormchasers feel they’re getting dicked around and decide to affiliate themselves with the Rangers, that hurts the Royals a bit, and the Royals are stuck with some far-flung affiliate in Edmonton.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
But doesn’t every MLB team promote and demote players as they wish? Isn’t that precisely what every minor league affiliate expects? Do you think ANY minor league team thinks “why do they keep taking our best players?” or “why don’t they make certain I have a full bullpen of rested players?”
More to the point of your comment, do you think any minor league team is thinking that if they change affiliation to another MLB team, they will be treated less like a taxi squad for the major league team? Minor league teams know what they are and what they’re for. They haven’t been meaningfully independent enterprises for several decades.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
when have teams constantly shuttled tired relievers down to AAA
with the intention of having them not pitch in AAA? how does that effect how the AAA team deals with the other players on their team? Is monty staying in the game longer than necessary? are legitimate prospects being overused?
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Teams shuttle pitchers back and forth as needed. Sometimes that can happen frequently. And as far as how that might affect the usage of other players, the MLB team controls the minor league managers. They aren’t going to let him overuse Monty or any other prospect. There’s always filler that can eat innings.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
These minor league teams do get disrupted a little bit,
but they actually look at it as an opportunity to sell out the ballpark. I remember Springfield people going nuts when Josh Kinney made some rehab appearances. It was standing room only when Carpenter made a start. They love when guys from the big league squad get sent down for any reason other than sucking.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
I think an 8-man bullpen is silly at best. They really dont need that many relievers. They might only need one in a rare isolated case or two. I would much rather have a 4-man bench including maier and dyson.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012 via mobile
I would rather have C-Rob and Dyson.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
This is funny.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
detwiler's a tool...please no
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
IRRELEVANT!
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
Out of options does not necessarily mean the player is gone
If the player is out of options and cut from the 25 man roster, the team will designate him for assignment (outright release is very rare). If he is not traded and clear waivers, the team can keep him and outright him to the minors without his consent if (1) he has less than 5 years (I think) service time and (2) has not been outrighted to the minors previously.
None of the players have five years of service time, but Mendoza and Pena have previously been DFA’d, cleared waivers, and assigned to the minors, so they would have the option of refusing the minor league assignment and becoming free agents.
The rest would remain with the Royals if they cleared waivers. In reality, though, Hochevar and Paulino are virtually guaranteed spots on the 25 man roster, Mijares (LOOGY) would likely be claimed, and Maier (perfectly adequate 4th OF) might get claimed, leaving O’Sullivan as the one likely guy who would clear waivers.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
If SOS is out of options, then I would think he would get a very long look for the 13th pitcher if we end up keeping that many. Basically have him come in and be the long reliever if one of our pitchers gets hammered (which probably will happen more than we all would like).
craig102m - February 21, 2012
The Royals have already given O'Sullivan a pretty long look and know what they have
SOS is pretty much the epitome of a replacement level starter. Unless he suddenly added 5 MPH to his fastball, everyone knows how his skill set plays in the majors.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
He should volunteer for TJS and go on the 60-day DL for the year.
It can’t hurt. More importantly, he can’t help much as-is.
Old Man Duggan - February 21, 2012
might as well release him back into his natural habitat
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
You realize his role would be as a long reliever/mop up guy. His job would be to keep us from having to use our whole bullpen in games we are not in. If we are in the game he wont come in. Guys like Wood and Herrera are not long relievers. I also dont think there is a point in wasting service time on a high level pitcher that wont be used in any meaningful situations. We used Adcock in a similar role last year and would much rather have SOS up than one of our players with potential.
Also by doing this one of three things will happen…
1. He sucks and we send him through waivers.
2. He is adequate and we use him for mop up duty.
3. He is better than expected and produces some value for us or in a trade…
it probably will be option 1 or 2, but you never know.
craig102m - February 21, 2012
not a bad role for teaford....
blowout, injured SP, etc
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
True, but Teaford has options and more value. He is a lefty so why not send him to AAA and have him there incase there is an injury?
craig102m - February 21, 2012
b/c he's already like 28...no need for him to waste anymore time/innings in AAA....
long relief in kc is more useful to the organization that pitching in AAA
billybeingbilly - February 21, 2012
There are better options for long relievers
Wood is a former starter who is not terrible against lefties and capable of throwing more than one inning at a time. Adcock, Mazzaro, and Teaford all project as better pitchers than O’Sullivan. The team should use any of them before SOS.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
SOS is nearly a lock to go through waivers.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
Golden Corral?
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
Denny's
buddyball - February 22, 2012
KFC FTW! Doubledown!
philofthenorth - February 22, 2012
I don't know if Mijares would be claimed because he is not making the minimum.
I think he is a near lock for the bullpen as the LOOGY though.
Pena will make the team because he is a switch hitter and Pina has options.
Hochever is a lock.
Paulino should be a lock for the rotation.
Mitch should be released, but he will make the team so that he can write letters to home.
Mendoza will make the team as the 5th starter or the long reliever, which will either put Teaford or Duffy in AAA.
Sean will be put through waivers I think, although If Mendoza makes the team as the 5th starter, he could push Teaford to AAA and be the long reliever.
Locks for the pen
Soria
Broxton
Holland
Advantage to making the team in the pen
Jose Mijares (LOOGY job should be his)
Tim Collins (has to beat Verdugo)
Teaford (has to beat either Mendoza or SOS for long reliever)
Crow (unless he is starting in AAA)
If there are seven relievers and Crow is in AAA or eight relievers and Crow is in the pen, one of Wood or Coleman should make the team.
(They could both make the team if there is eight relievers and Crow is in AAA, or could both not make the team if Crow is in the pen and there are seven relievers)
Other Royals on the 40 man who may or may not make the team
If there are seven relievers, Getz or Dyson may make th team.
Duffy has to beat out Crow, Mendoza, Teaford, Mazzaro, and SOS (I think he is the sixth starter and would need an injury to make the team)
Long shots
Kelvim Herrera (good but looks blocked)
Jeremy Jeffress (raw and the Royals have lots of relievers)
Clint Robinson (hey the Royals could figure out they need a lefty pinch hitter)
Derrick Robinson (why is he still on the 40 man?)
David Lough (would have to pass Mitch)
Ryan Verdugo (would have to pass Timmy)
Noel Arguelles (near zero chance)
Nathan Adcock (near zero chance)
Vin Mazzaro (near zero chance)
BabyBlues - February 21, 2012
I would bet heavily against Mendoza making the 25-man roster. There are more talented SP options and no room in a stacked bullpen.
Scott McKinney - February 21, 2012 via mobile
I think he is at least 40-60 to make the team.
Better odds then Duffy faces in making the team, as he just has to beat out two of Duffy, SOS, and Teaford, and to make the roster. Also remember that an injury to one of 7 players, (maybe a 20% chance?), would up his chances to a near lock to be on the roster as well.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
My guess at Moore's view of the Royals SP depth chart
1. Hochevar
2. Chen
3. Sanchez
4. Duffy
5. Paulino
6. Montgomery
7. O’Sullivan
8. Mazzaro
9. Mendoza
10. Teaford
11. Adcock
And there’s a possibility that a good showing from Crow in spring training could put him in the top 6 of that list, but I find it unlikely. Long story short, I think it would take injuries or very poor ST performances from at least 4 of the top 8 SP’s.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
It is not always about the depth chart Scott, who has options matters a lot as well.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
And you think the Royals are desperate to keep Mendoza and SOS? Also, do you think someone is likely to claim them if waived? I think Moore wants to win games, and I think he’s going to choose better pitchers over worse pitchers (who are marginal major leaguers at best) that are out of options.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Moore, like most GM, seems unwilling to let "talent" exposed to other clubs
I can see SOS getting sent down, but I think they will give Mendoza a loooong look.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
Why has he never received a long look before?
I really have no idea where the idea came from that Dayton Moore really likes Luis Mendoza. I mean, maybe he does, but where do people get this opinion from? Has he been saying things about Mendoza that are beyond the standard, generally positive comments he makes about all miscellaneous players in the organization? He may well have said things that I’ve missed. He certainly doesn’t fit the toolsy profile that Moore tends to prefer. I see no reason to believe that Moore values Mendoza much, and especially no reason to believe that he’d demote a better player so that we don’t lose this particular talent.
That being said, with Moore, any mistake is possible. I just don’t think it is likely.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Because he had a really good ERA at AAA last year
That’s why.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
So you’re suggesting that Dayton Moore is going to make a personnel decision based primarily on stats?
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Also, Anthony Lerew had a full season as a starter for Omaha in 2010 with a 2.25 ERA. Why didn’t he get a long look, or even make the 25-man roster in 2011?
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Am I insane?
Why do I remember Anthony Larew being in KC for a long time in 2010? I think I remember them being all in love with him, starting him with a small sample size of success, then him imploding his way back to Omaha. Am I way off?
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
Lerew had 26 innings in KC in 2010.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Who knows
It just seems like in all the talk about the Royals, media people seem to indicate Mendoza is getting a serious look. There is no reason for the media to fabricate this – typically, they would not even know who Mendoza is, or would only remember him as the guy who shit the bed in the big leagues. But there is smoke, I suspect there is fire. Mendoza will be either one of the very last cuts, or will make the team IMO, and I’m pretty confident he’s on the team. Not that I advocate such tomfoolery.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
I've been on the road a lot lately...
…and therefore out-of-the-loop when it comes to KC media. But I recall Dayton saying things about Mendoza toward the end of last season that really had me worried.
kcemigre - February 22, 2012
My bad.
For whatever reason, I remember thinking it was much more at some point. Maybe I just liked his sideburns.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 23, 2012
Moore hated his burns
Old Man Duggan - February 22, 2012
Mijares is making only a little above the minimum and less than $1 million
A team who is suddenly in need of a LOOGY is not going to balk at paying him a few hundred thousand more.
Gopherballs - February 21, 2012
Louis Coleman?
higs - February 22, 2012
I have Coleman as the sixth to eigth reliever, on the bubble.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
Really? I think Coleman is a mortal lock to make the team, with Teaford extremely unlikely to make the team. You appear to assume that a pitcher with a lot of recent SP experience has to be the long reliever. That certainly isn’t necessary. Wood and Holland both spent a good deal of time in long relief last year. I think Wood can and should handle that role ably. I would think the bullpen would look something like this:
Soria
Broxton
Holland
Coleman
Mijares
Wood
Collins
I think Herrera and Jeffress have a shot. I think guys like SOS, Mazzaro, Teaford, Mendoza and Adcock are merely SP/LR depth who should be in the minors unless circumstances necessitate their promotion.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
It is not always quality, the Royals like balance in the pen, and Teaford happens to be a lefty.
What should happen and what the Royals will do are usually two different things. There may only be five slots for righties, and Crow, Holland, Broxton and Soria take up 4. That does not leave a lot of space.
BabyBlues - February 22, 2012
First, I screwed up in leaving Crow off the above list. I think he’ll be in the major league bullpen. And I think it is very likely that there will be a 7-man bullpen. So who is the odd man out? Probably Collins or Wood.
I think the Royals will probably have two lefties in the pen, if possible. I think Mijares is a lock unless something goes really wrong in ST. Collins would be the second choice for lefty reliever. I think Teaford is a distant third, and he has options remaining so they can safely stash him in the minors. I think there’s next to no chance they go with three lefties in the pen.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
Haven't heard much about Crow and the starting rotation over the last month or so.
That’s one of the few things going on in the spring that I’m very interested in seeing.
Warden11 - February 22, 2012
moore just talked about it on fescoe's show....
kinda tap danced around ‘will crow be in the mlb bullpen or in aaa starting if he doesnt make the rotation?’….moore said something along the lines of ‘it is absolutely possible that crow starts in omaha’….personally, i think its likely, given that we have bullpen options who are likely to be about as good as crow such as herrerra
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Likely that he'll be in Omaha trying to make it as a starter?
I have a hard time seeing that as a likely outcome. After the last season, I just think he’ll be in Kansas City either in the pen or in the starting rotation early. Hopefully I’m wrong here though.
Warden11 - February 22, 2012
Yes, in Omaha as a starter
Moore seems to recognize that they need to take a shot at developing any possible starting pitching prospect. It also allows them to game his service time.
Old Man Duggan - February 22, 2012
I'm all for it.
Too bad he wasn’t doing that last season already but too late to worry about it now.
Warden11 - February 23, 2012
Really? Do you think that putting Crow in the KC bullpen last year was about developing him as a starter? I wouldn’t say that he was or is committed at all to developing Crow as a starter. I don’t think he’s completely against it, but neither his actions nor his words show much enthusiasm for the concept of Crow as a starter.
Scott McKinney - February 23, 2012
replace collins with herrerra and thats an awesome bullpen....
and if/when jeffres figures out his control…wow
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Yeah, I think that bullpen is very good and deep
I like Herrera a lot, and I think Collins could bounce back to being at least decent. And I think there’s good depth, especially from some prospects coming up.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
I actually think that Collins doesn't make the big league pen to start the season.
Old Man Duggan - February 22, 2012
I can see that
RoyalsRetro - February 23, 2012
Bob Dutton said Coleman is a virtual lock
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
which is better?
mortal lock or virtual lock?
buddyball - February 22, 2012
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
I asked George Brett
He said the only lock he cares about is Loch Lloyd.
thelaundry - February 22, 2012
Or Virtual Mortality?
philofthenorth - February 22, 2012
Does that make Crow the long reliver?
BabyBlues - February 23, 2012
That's a decent possibility
Especially if Blake Wood doesn’t make the cut in the bullpen.
Scott McKinney - February 23, 2012
OT: Jonah Keri described Yuni as execrable in his Brewers write up
spamiam79 - February 21, 2012 via mobile
That means "able to execute", right?
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
good at scrabble?
buddyball - February 22, 2012
Sadly, It Has
Nothing to do with excrement.
philofthenorth - February 22, 2012
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