St. Louis has been spoiled in the last 5 years by two unexpected World Series. And yet, the club is poised to potentially do big things. How many other teams can boast the following: a $100M payroll, limited long term commitments and a healthy if not thriving farm system. Go ahead and take a look for yourself. Is there a team that has positioned itself better than the Cardinals? There's an argument for Tampa Bay and for the Texas Rangers but is it a significant gap with where the Cardinals find themselves right now?
They'll lose Molina in FA I predict (now watch him sign tomorrow)
Freese is old (turns 29 this year), injury ridden, and deathly slow.
This team has a lot of talent in the farm system at pitching, but the Royals have a much better system as far as position players go, and we have control of our infield plus DH and CF for several years to come.
The Cardinals will have a good to great rotation for awhile I predict though and they have the payroll to make some stopgap acquisitions the Royals don’t as well as a better GM (probably).
I’d take the Royals starting lineup over the Cardinals though if payroll was equal. Biggest difference between the teams is starting pitching.
WURoyal - February 21, 2012 via mobile
"limited long term commitments"
Double-edged sword. Limited long-term assets.
Jay, Freese, Craig, Descalso, Holliday.
Hosmer, Moustakas, Escobar, Perez, Giavotella, Cain, Butler.
WURoyal - February 21, 2012 via mobile
Can they sustain a $100 million payroll?
McGwire and Pujols were both big attractions to come see the team even if the team was losing (although they didn’t lose much). If this team does happen to stumble for a year or two, will the fans still come out? And if they don’t, can they continue to support a $100 million payroll?
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
are you questioning the BFIB’s fanhood?
pj_hawk4life - February 22, 2012
Yes.
Yodazilla - February 22, 2012
It's the second day of spring training
why are we talking about the Cardinals?
sfeldkamp - February 22, 2012
It's either this or try and predict which day in late April that Yuni becomes our everyday starting 2B.
EspeciallyK - February 22, 2012
I don't think that will happen until May
Spring Training has made me a cock-eyed optimist.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
We should preview our October matchup
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
I read Jonah Keri's account of the Astros shakeup
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7579203/the-blueprint-how-fix-houston-astros
The Cardinals’ advantage might go beyond attendance/revenue/payroll.
thelaundry - February 22, 2012
i dont see where they're going to get enough hitting from....
carp’s about done…wainwright is going to get really expensive…holliday is going to age and stay expensive. shelby miller is and will be a stud. i have my doubts about carlos martinez though…seems like a reliever to me.
their fascination with scrappy white guys may come back to haunt them when they dont have pujosl gobbling up 10 wins by himself.
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Agree
If Berkman ages quickly and Beltran’s knees don’t hold up, that is a team that could get real old real fast. The Cards have been pulling homegrown players out of their ass the last ten years, you’d think that luck would run out eventually.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
Agreed,
but what do we know? The BFIB are obviously more in tune with how to win. Enough with all this Pujols talk too. They replaced him with Beltran and have been going out of their way to try to convince me that Berkman can hit left handed pitching. IMO, they’d be completely screwed in any other division.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
i cant wait til theo gets the cubs turned around
and he makes the cardinals his bitch
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Agree.agree,
betting on Berkman and Beltran to stay healthy over the course of the season is very risky. probably more risky than taking the over bet in Vegas on the Royals 2012 win total.
oh and Berkman hasn’t been able to hit right handed since 2008.
DickHowser4ever - February 22, 2012
Agreed.
I can’t wait to see how the regression all over that team bites them. Also really hoping this Molina thing explodes in their faces.
mitchfreakingmaier! - February 22, 2012
I think they're still screwed this year.
I think the Brewers are still better, even without Prince and potentially/likely 50 games without Braun. The rest of their core isn’t staring down the spectre of retirement. I’d be much more afraid of the Reds this year, too, as their pitching likely sees an improvement from last year, and scoring runs shouldn’t be a problem for them. Berkman’s 2011 was an aberrant flash in an otherwise waning career. Holliday is on the way down, too, and Beltran can be counted on to miss 50 games. No thanks. I’ll take one of the other teams in the Central. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pittsburgh ahead of them in the standings, too, and I’d certainly want Pittsburgh’s organization going forward than St. Louis’s.
Old Man Duggan - February 22, 2012
I would pick the Reds to win the NL Central this year
Sweep_the_Leg - February 22, 2012
Agree
I like the Reds a lot, not just to win the Central, but to be serious contenders for the pennant.
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
I like the Reds a lot as well...so since we all are apparently high on them, they'll tank and win 73.
EspeciallyK - February 22, 2012
Plus StL has more money to spend in the 2012 draft than KC.
so their farm system is likely to re-stock at a faster rate than KCs.
DickHowser4ever - February 22, 2012
i'll take our odds with moore and co drafting over the unknown that is drafting for the cards now that luhnow is gone
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
Cardinals of the last 5 years remind me of old KC teams with Brett during early/mid 80's.
One superstar – Pujols/Brett
Several good/VG players – Holliday, Berkman, Molina/McRae, White,
Excellent Starting Pitching – Carpenter, Wainwright,/Saberhagen, Gubicza, DJ, Leibrandt
Strong Bullpen – Cards don’t have a comparable to Quiz
Good Manager – LaRussa/Howser
St. Louis’ minor league system is improving and they are doing well. They are a team who could get old in a hurry with Beltran, Berkman and Holliday. The loss of LaRussa and Duncan will hurt them more than people imagine. I don’t see the Cards being better than the Royals over the next 5 years.
daveyork - February 22, 2012
Wouldn't it be awesome if they just took a nosedive?
What if the curse gets transferred from the Cubs to the Cardinals? That would be awesome. Let’s see the BFIB withstand 20 years of ineptitude.
Yodazilla - February 22, 2012
does anyone have a goat they can try to take to a Cards game.
can always try to transfer the curse to the cards the same way it got hung on the Cubs.
DickHowser4ever - February 22, 2012
What's advantages do the Cardinals have over the Royals?
-More money
-????
I mean, sure, they have a decent farm system, some solid young players, a reasonably large budget, and they don’t have albatross contracts. But the Royals have a better farm system, a better young core, and they don’t have albatross contracts. So it’s the $25M of payroll space that makes the difference?
kcdc1 - February 22, 2012
So it’s the $25M of payroll space that makes the difference?!
Hey, that’s two Kyle Lohses!
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
GM/front office?
I haven’t really delved into an analysis of Mozeliak and the Cards front office, so I really don’t know. But I think the engines that drive a MLB team’s success are 1) the GM/FO and 2) money. If Mozeliak and co. are better than DM and co., then I think that’s a major factor in the Cards favor. Apparently both FO’s have been good at drafting and developing (KC appears to have done better, but also with better draft slots). And I think the Cards FO has been better at evaluating and acquiring major league talent. Money is a part of that, but I don’t think that’s all.
Anyway, this is just throwing a variable out there, not really answering the question.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
- ???? = established #1 and #2 quality SPs.
KC does not have an established #1 or #2 level SP.
DickHowser4ever - February 22, 2012
Not that the BA Future Lineup is that accurate, but tell me which you'd rather have in 2015
C Yadier Molina (although I think he’ll split)
1B Allen Craig
2B Kolten Wong
3B David Freese
SS Ryan Jackson
LF Matt Holliday (35 years old in 2015)
CF Jon Jay
RF Oscar Taveras
SP Adam Wainwright
SP Shelby Miller
SP Jaime Garcia
SP Carlos Martinez
SP Tyrell Jenkins
C Salvador Perez
1B Eric Hosmer
2B Johnny Giovatella
3B Mike Moustakas
SS Alcidies Escobar
LF Wil Myers
CF Bubba Starling
RF Alex Gordon
DH Billy Butler
SP Mike Montgomery
SP Danny Duffy
SP Jake Odorizzi
SP John Lamb
SP Luke Hochevar
RoyalsRetro - February 22, 2012
This part is exciting:
Hosmer-Butler-Gordon-Myers-Moose-Starling
That’s a killer lineup right there.
Yodazilla - February 22, 2012
Cart
Horse
Warden11 - February 22, 2012
Starling breaking ST as the starting CF for the 2015 season
seems extremely optimistic.
Sweep_the_Leg - February 22, 2012
I hope that proves to be a killer lineup
The jury is still out….way out. I remember when Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson were going to be the amazing core to a young, excellent Mets rotation. That looked like it was going to be a killer rotation for years to come.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
pitchers and hitters are completely different...you know that
unlikely that all 6 or any of those hitters are going to have their careers completely shot by injuries
billybeingbilly - February 22, 2012
But the odds do say that some of them will fail
There’s a decent chance that Gordon won’t be a Royal in 2015. Myers and Starling are prospects who, statistically speaking, are more likely to fail than succeed. Moose is still a huge question mark.
Scott McKinney - February 22, 2012
yeah...i just dont think that those guys are a good comparison for our group of hitters
billybeingbilly - February 23, 2012
Sure. I’m just saying that highly touted prospect names look great….until they fail. And they usually fail.
Scott McKinney - February 23, 2012
The good thing is
A lot of those guys aren’t prospects, they’ve already made it.
RoyalsRetro - February 23, 2012
Generation K
What could’ve been.
BeauJackson - February 23, 2012
Geographically speaking, the Royals are in a much better place than the Cards
Loose Seal - February 23, 2012
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